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Here We Are: What Makes Us Human
Here We Are: What Makes Us Human
55. John P Marovich [Creating Space]
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Creating Space. These two words encompass SO MUCH of the world around us. Spaces can be interpersonal connections, physical rooms, interactive environments, and so much more. This week, lighting and production designer John P Marovich shares with us all about the spaces he creates and curates.
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Welcome to Here We Are. The podcast where we celebrate the beauty of being a nerd by learning about nerdy things from fellow nerds. I'm your host, Joy Blue. Today's" guest and I have a blossoming friendship happening. It all started when he messaged me on Facebook and said, hi, We need to be friends and here are several reasons why." And of course I said, yes. John and I are both involved in the live event industry, we're both nerds, and we both love storytelling. And I am super excited to be able to showcase John's prowess to you today. So without further ado, here's my friend John P Marovich to talk with us about creating space:
John P MarovichMy name is John Marovich. I'm a production lighting designer for work. Live in Las Vegas, Nevada. I am from Chicago originally. So went, yeah, I went to school at DePaul came up through the theater program there. Grew up as a theater kid and then stumbled into the weird world of corporate theater that uh, that you and I find ourselves in. So, yeah, completely not by plan. I was not even aware that that was an industry. I was working at the House of Blues in Chicago for a few years after I graduated from school, figuring out what I wanted to do. I thought for sure I wanted to go and light bands and live on a tour bus. I. And and then a corporate show came into the space one day and helped them out. And they actually offered me a position on the next show that they had the following week and just jumped into this weird thing that I had no idea what it was.
Joy BlueThat's so cool. You just followed your curiosity.
John P MarovichA hundred percent. That's what it's all about.
Joy BlueLove that. Okay. So what do you wanna nerd out about today?
John P MarovichSo I would love to nerd out about creating space. As a designer, it's one of the things that I get to do, which is fun. And I think that we can talk about it a few different ways that will be a lot of fun for the two of us. Cuz I think you and I are gonna have very different perspectives different yet similar perspective, just based upon the seats that we sit in when we're on show site.
Joy BlueCorrect. Okay. So let's start at the beginning. Go ahead and define what you mean by space. And then what is the action then of creating space?
John P MarovichSure. So, space in the first part is the actual space where we're going to have our show. I think people don't necessarily realize when they walk into a large convention or something like that. That probably hours before they got there, that was an empty room that still had bar Mitzva wine spilled on the carpet from the night before. And the amount of work that goes into taking that space and transforming it into this sort of magical theater space with all the bells and whistles and all of those things where it's a space that we create for them to be able to tell their story or deliver their message.
Joy BlueYeah. So it's interesting to me that you're using the word theater. I haven't put that label on it. I've just put it as like event, but you're right. Everything we are doing is theater. We are following a script to some point. There is like, you have to be able to see, you have to be able to like have a stage. There is a set design. Like all of those things do fit. That is fascinating.
John P MarovichSo I use theater in the terms of our craft. One of the other things that I use is storytelling. I'm not insinuating in any way that somebody that's getting up there and talking about their new corporate rollout or model or new product that they're telling stories as in fiction in any way. I use storytelling just in that we're connecting them with storytelling tools. They bring us to the table to help deliver their message. And that's what we do really well. How do we sort of create this weird space, be it virtual or physical or some hybrid of those two things where they can take their message and translate it, sort of scale it up for the masses. Because it's different than sitting around typing an email or sitting around a boardroom table or something like that. It's a completely different party once you're addressing a crowd of a thousand people in this weird space. There's all these other things that you don't have to think about when it's just eight people around a table.
Joy Blueright, right. Okay. So when did you get started with creating spaces? Like when did you realize what you were doing was creating a space? When did it go from just like, yeah, I'm doing some flashing. Here's a lighting term, everybody, some bally-hoo's. Um,
John P MarovichOr Flash and Trash,
Joy BlueOoh, flash and trash. When did it go from just operating to like actually this is a space that I have agency in.
John P MarovichOh, I like that. So. I think probably after I focused my 14th thousand stage wash. And it you start to, to find other things, right? So, it's a little bit formulaic in how we come into the room. The client approaches us with an idea and we sort of find out what they want to do if there's entertainment, components, dinner things, all the logistic bits of it. And then we we have to go through the process of renting gear and things like that. So it's all very literal in terms of creating space there. I don't think it was until later in life when I realized the importance of that space. That it's not just a bunch of gear poured into a space that we then use to put on a technical presentation. Even though I was a proud member of AV club all through high school and, we were all those geeks. It's so much more than that. There's so much sort of philosophy to storytelling tools where we can help people. They come to us with an idea, but they don't necessarily know how to translate it. So to, to make sure that we're helping them so that it is it's appropriate. And we all share responsibility in that. And that's the part that I like. It's more than just those gears. Like when we're on show site, you have a very particular role. I do. Everybody does. Typically they look out to front of house, the control area in front of the drape where the audience is, and they're gonna see probably three, maybe four people. It's gonna be the two of us. There's gonna be a sound guy, even though we usually wanna stick that guy in the back. Just kidding. I love sound guys. Uh, And maybe a producer is out there with them. What they don't know is the army of people that are backstage and just the amount of energy that each and every one of us brings into that space. We bring our craft, but I think that we all sort of have a responsibility to, to come correct like we have to bring the right energy into that space so that, that presenter, we have to gain their trust, make sure that they know that they're in good hands. And then we can sort of all deliver that message together.
Joy BlueYeah. I think the first time I realized that there was power in it was back when I used to play bass at church. So. I remember we, we were playing for this well known artist and she said something that was both like eye opening and also like, oh, uh oh, she's like, like, what we're doing can be very emotionally manipulative. So like, we need to hold space for this well. And I think a lot of what we do in event creation in this corporate world is like what you're saying, we are creating a safe environment for the client's message to be heard in the best way possible. What does that look like from your end? Because you're not just lighting, right? You're more
John P MarovichNo I'm not just lighting. I do production design sort of, it's a. Broad spectrum of what I do. I do some work in the aerospace technology and pharmaceutical field. All of which are behind several thousand pages of non-disclosure agreements, I'm sure you're no stranger to. So, can't necessarily talk a lot about those, but some of the other fun projects that I get to work on, um, Every Thanksgiving, I design the halftime show for the Dallas Cowboys. So I work as the production and lighting designer on that. So we have the stage itself, but the other components of that are getting it on and off of the field. I was shocked to find out as a non-sports ball person, apparently there's this game that happens on time of the show or on either side of the show. I know. So we have to get this thing onto the field in a designated amount of minutes and off of the field in a designated amount of time. Getting it off the field is where it gets tricky, because if we are late for that we're cutting into network air time that somebody has paid a lot of money for.
Joy BlueYeah.
John P MarovichSo a lot of fines could potentially happen there. But that's a really fun one. One that happened a little bit closer to you, the event isn't happening any longer, but the Chi-Town rising new year's event that happened in Chicago with the big star that went up the side of the building. I designed the star with another designer, Chris Wren.
Joy BlueThat's really cool.
John P MarovichThat was a lot of fun, a lot of really unique challenges with that one working outside and through the elements. And I had already moved to Las Vegas at that point. So I had become a giant baby to the cold. So that was never gonna happen in my head, but it happened after about three weeks.
Joy Blueyou gotta do you gotta do.
John P MarovichYeah.
Joy BlueWith both of those, you create gathering spaces for memories to be had. that's what the star rising is. That's a gathering space. That's a marking of time. That's a memory people have together. Like what does this mean to you? It's not just a line item on your resume.
John P MarovichIt's not at all. No, it's actually a huge responsibility. And that's, it's easy for us to become jaded, I think, because we do tens of shows a year. Typically I'm involved in 30 to 40 projects a year. It can never be just another show. I think that it's important to remember that for those new year's events, you're marking a moment in time that's gonna be captured in photographs and memories. And it's you're becoming ingrained in people's lives. It's a huge thing. One of the other things that I love to do that I get to participate in sometimes is designing activations. So in what we do, an activation is a space where people have got props or something like that. I mean, I guess the best, like a good example of that would be like a photo booth or something like that people can take pictures and be silly around a theme or something like that. But I've had a chance to do some of that, that it integrates a lot of different technology components and things like that. That creates a really fun opportunity because we get to play with people, but they don't necessarily realize that we are playing with them. So we get to come in and test everything and figure it out. And whatever that is, however we want people to interact with that space, we've run a thousand different scenarios. So by the time that they get to it and are coming in there and they get to play, they get to be the kids, it's really great to sit back and watch because I can literally stand next to you while you're doing it, and you have no idea that I was involved with the setup in any way. So I feel like I can boil down what we do to a certain extent is sort of creating really cool forts for grownups. There's still that sort of childlike play, I think, if we're doing it correctly that comes out and gives people a chance to dismiss reality for a minute. Reality is really rough right now. So I think any opportunity that we can create in a safe space for people to walk away from everything that's terrible in the world for a couple of hours and just receive whatever this new message is, it's pretty great. I mean, I think you could argue that it's church in some ways. It's sort of creating a sacred space where people can come in and just be a community and experience something that's special. And then we all leave and that's forever ingrained in us.
Joy BlueThat's like the embodiment of what books are to so many people. I
John P MarovichTrue.
Joy BlueBut what you're talking about is creating spaces where people can share these experiences together.
John P MarovichYeah.
Joy BlueAnd it's also documented.
John P MarovichSometimes it is, Sometimes it isn't. At some of these events, it's really interesting now that locking people's phones up has become a little bit of a norm. We do that for a multitude of different reasons. Sometimes we're unveiling a new product or something like that. So all of those photo images and everything like that are embargoed, they can't be released for a certain amount of time and the best way to make sure that somebody doesn't accidentally sneak a picture and text it to somebody. Is just to take everybody's phones away. And it does a thing. I think it's different. When I was coming up in theater and things like that, I mean, you could bring your film camera to a show and shoot a picture. You probably weren't bringing a voice recorder of any kind, but it's a different thing now that everything is documented. So taking that away and just forcing people to be present. Is such a cool thing. We just we're there. You're connecting your energy and there's no distractions. It's just one thing that we're all focusing our energy on. It's a pretty magical thing when it happens.
Joy BlueWell, it sounds like you're creating space for wonder to happen.
John P MarovichIf we do it right.
Joy BlueI mean, that's what got me into production in the first place was watching these productions happening and feeling that wonder inside of me. And then that curiosity led to, I wonder how that's done. And then now that I know how it's done, I'm pretty jaded and it's more of a struggle to find wonder. But like what you're telling me is you're creating spaces for play and you're creating spaces for wonder.
John P MarovichIt's true. I mean, in the physical sense we do that, but I think the other part to, to talk about there in creating space is maybe we use a different term and we'll call it holding space. Um, The way that you and I might interact as collaborators in that space. It's really easy for person to come in and just take over the entire conversation and not let anybody else speak at that table. But you really only get the product of that one person when you do that. So when you're in a group and I think we're lucky in that we get to collaborate with similar, almost always the same people. Sometimes there's players that change out or something like that, or it's people you see on a regular basis, the show happens every year, it kind of becomes a trusted family. I think that all of us in production really became aware of just how important our show families were during COVID, when we didn't see all these people on a regular basis. And in some cases, those people are as important as our actual family.
Joy BlueYeah. That's a whole different type of creating space. Is learning to choose family in the places you're at. Like I haven't been on a lot of recurring shows, so almost every show I'm meeting a whole bunch of new people. And a wise producer once told me joy, start with just trusting that everybody can do their job.
John P MarovichYeah. Believe somebody is awesome until they give you a reason to think otherwise. So I think just the act of doing that is, is setting them up to win. I think that's a big part of, of being a good part of a team is setting everybody up to win. We have to champion each other cuz nobody else is gonna do it.
Joy BlueRight. And all of that creating space is happening behind the scenes so that we can then create a space for people to show up on that stage and share their message. It's so meta.
John P MarovichYeah. It's all connected. I mean, everywhere you look, there's design, people are creating something around us, every single thing. Whether it's the doorknob you use to get in the room, the fork you're eating with, or the space you're having a show in. Somebody has labored over that and made sure that that works properly for you to be having your moment with it.
Joy BlueSo that comes back to design thinking. Are you familiar with design thinking?
John P MarovichI would love to hear specifically a little bit more about the term.
Joy BlueIt's a whole process of thinking. It's all about fast iterations. So you start with what is the problem and who is the problem impacting and then engaging with empathy and saying, what do you actually need? And then engaging with those people and saying, is this actually the problem? And like being as clear as possible about what the problem is, and then starting to do very fast iterations and brainstorming. And it's a whole nother type of creating and holding space for not having to have the right answer, but creating an opportunity to truly empathize and to truly move toward how can we fix this together? I love this.
John P MarovichAbsolutely. And I love that term. I wanna dig a little bit deeper into that. You've, in that term described what collaboration should look like. But so much of that is those sort of quick iterations of things. For me, the words that I would put around that would be creating space to play. Because I think that is one thing that people lose. It's easy for things to become formulaic. And just this factory where we're just pumping stuff out. And one of the statements that I hate to hear is we do it that way because that's the way we've always done it. Where we've never challenged what the process is or why it looks even the way it does. And at some point that's generations down the road and we have no idea why the hell we're doing anything. We're just doing it cuz that's the way we've always done it. Holding that space for us to play as collaborators is great. I feel like sometimes I look over at the show caller or the stage manager, I have a moment of sympathy because I feel like you're like, I'm just trying to land this into a spreadsheet. What is somebody talking about right now? But I think the really good ones give us that little bit of time to riff on something and we, throw that idea and everybody just puts cool stuff on it. And then, we have that opportunity once we've built it up to this big, crazy thing to then go in and refine and pare it down to exactly what it needs to be in order to tell the story properly.
Joy BlueYeah. And that's something I love about lighting, specifically. I didn't really tune into the power of lighting as a storyteller until a film class in college where we started breaking down how does color impact this scene? So much of color is also playing with your unconscious bias. So red tends to be more ominous and evil. Blue is like, oh, here I am. The good guy. Green's like, let's go champion, let's move. But in a corporate space, lighting is so much more limited in my perception than in like a concert space or in a film space. How do you approach storytelling when, like you said, like you're focusing another stage wash, which for my non-techie friends, stage wash is the white light that is thrown onto the stage, washing it in light. So you can actually see the person. It's essential, and yet that's a very monotonous task of focusing who knows how many lights cuz every
John P Marovichtrue. Yeah. It depends on how large the stage is for that particular show. But it's one of those things where if we do it correctly, nobody knows that we've done it because nobody thinks about light. It's something that we can't touch. It's not tangible. People don't necessarily know how it's affecting them. But nearly every moment of your life, it's having a huge impact on you. Um, And it's in the corporate setting, it's particularly challenging. You bring up a really good point in if you're looking at theater, dance, rock and roll, or music in general, there's a lot more freedom there. Or we can say this song makes me feel blue and we can go with these great sort of color palettes and things like that. That gets restricted a little bit when we're doing a show for one company whose colors might be red and yellow, but their competitors colors might be blue and green. So the second blue or green hits that stage, everybody's yelling. They think that it's, the competitor colors are there and that kind of thing. So that does present a little bit of a challenge. For the most part, when there are corporate speakers up on stage, somebody representing the company, a lot of times we'll pull that color story from the slide decks that have been approved by lawyers and everybody in the mix. Yeah. So we'll pull a lot of the color story from that, but there are moments to break away from that. A lot of times, if there's an entertainment component, that's a time when we get to break the rules. Sometimes they'll do a dance opening or something like that. So those are some opportunities. But there's other subtle things that we can do that give us opportunities to sort of have fun and to drive that room. When we're walking people up onto the stage, you know, typically you'll call for that bally-hoo, and a play on, and we play some fun music and get the audience all pumped up. A really great thing happens. And this is, it's a memorable moment for me in my career. The first time that I threw lights out into the house and they sprayed all over the audience and everybody screamed. It was like this like bone rattling moment for me where it's like, I did that with this one handle. I mean, granted, there might have been somebody famous on stage, but as far as I was concerned in that moment, it was this one handle that made the lights fly up into the audience and all the kids went crazy.
Joy BlueYep.
John P MarovichJust the power in that moment is so much fun. So It's this kind of like fine balance between you have to make sure that the cameras have enough light and there's all these sort of technical boxes that we have to check, but then there's also just making sure that people are comfortable. A lot of weird things happen in our space. It could be a motivational leader where people are having to stand up and do things. And I know from some of your other podcasts, maybe you're not super excited about dancing in public uh, finger dancing. I believe you, you referred to, but in that moment I can take the house down or something that to create that space for people where it's like, you know what, I'm dancing in the dark and it doesn't matter. People, they aren't seeing me, or there's enough lights flying around that people are paying attention to that and not paying attention to Me.
Joy BlueThat is why I dance in the tech booth occasionally because I'm in the back of the room.
John P Marovichwhen
Joy Bluelooking at me. I'm in
John P Marovichyou and I land that first show together,
Joy BlueOh, to be golden.
John P MarovichWe'll dance. It'll be great. We don't have to tell anybody. I'll make lights go in their eyes.
Joy BlueFine. I do the Cupid shuffle that's about it.
John P MarovichYep. I got that one.
Joy BlueAnd the homeschool dance.
John P MarovichI don't know the homeschool
Joy BlueYeah. I make it up every time. So it's fine.
John P MarovichOh, okay. That's fair.
Joy BlueOkay. So for, So for people who aren't paying attention to lighting, and who aren't paying attention to lighting as a storyteller. Next time they walk into a large environment, what do you wish, or what do you hope, what do you encourage them to look for that they might not have seen before?
John P MarovichLook up from your phone. I would say, just be present in the moment. Somebody has designed that space for you. It's an opportunity just to soak it in. I think right now we're so distracted by so many things. If we just take a moment and just experience. Um, that lighting could be anything that could be lighting that somebody has created for you, but that could also be the lighting that you walk into when you walk out your front door. Just soak it in. Because whether you know it or not, it's having a huge impact on your life. You know, People talk about seasonal depression and things like that. And you mentioned the color red. Once you start to, to talk about what that does to the body, the fact that if you're in red light long enough, you're gonna become more aggressive and you're gonna become hungry. And it's connected to your body in all these different ways that people aren't aware of. So I would say. Look around, be part of it. Be present.
Joy BlueThat is beautiful. Thank you so much for your time. And for sharing this. I am so excited for when we get to create a space together sometime somewhere.
John P MarovichYes, we're gonna make it happen.
Joy BlueSo Here We Are! My hope for you walking away from listening to this interview is that you not only learned more about production nerdiness, but also about how the environments around us are often extremely well thought through so that we can create beautiful experiences for those around us. As John said, take some time to put down your devices. Soak in the stories around you. Ask questions about why something is the way it is. Be curious. And pay attention to what light does around you. I loved spending this time with you, John. And I'm looking forward to creating more spaces with you soon. If you've got a flavor of nerd that you want me to celebrate, I would love to hear all about it. So go ahead and email me at herewearethepodcast@gmail.com and tell me everything. And I love taking time to sit and make space for nerd to be celebrated. If you really liked this podcast and want to financially support what I'm doing, head on over to patreon.com, search for Here We Are The Podcast and sign up for one of the many beautifully written support tiers that I'm really proud of. So until next time. Don't forget that curiosity wins and the world needs more nerds.