58. Shannon Downey [Art Activism]

Art and Activism have gone hand in hand for so long. But has it always happened through cross-stitch classes? It has now! Tune in to this week's episode to learn more about how cross-stitching builds community.

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Joy Blue 0:10

Welcome to Here We Are. The podcast where we celebrate the beauty of being a nerd by learning about nerdy things from fellow nerds. I'm your host, Joy Blue. I have interviewed folks from all across the nerd spectrum. From the intricacies of glues and adhesives, to the calmness of fly fishing. To the love of food, to the thrills of a Black Friday well-planned. And sometimes I just get met with something new that blows my mind. Today's guest is one of those, and was introduced to me by John P Marovich who talked about creating space in episode 55. Something you got to know is that when John introduces you to folks, you know they're good humans. And if that isn't enough to get you excited, how about knowing that today's guest also has an amazing moniker. So without further ado, here is Shannon Downey to tell us all about art activism.

Shannon Downey 1:12

My name is Shannon Downey. But on the internet I'm known as Badass Cross Stitch, and I am an artist, craftivist, educator, instigator, strategist, all around troublemaker.

Joy Blue 1:26

I love this for you. This is amazing. What do you wanna nerd out about today?

Shannon Downey 1:32

I nerd out every day about the power of art in activism and in changing people's hearts and minds.

Joy Blue 1:41

Oh, this is exciting.

Shannon Downey 1:42

yeah, let's talk about that.

Joy Blue 1:44

Okay. First of all, start with a couple definitions. Can you define art? Tell us. If there's like a lane that you're in Or if we're talking about art all in general, that's fine, but also talk to me more about what you mean by activism. I would love to dive into those first.

Shannon Downey 2:00

Defining art, You know, that's a whole 40 minute, six hour podcast. But, it's important to me because a lot of the work that I make is fiber based. So I do a lot of like embroidery and textile work, which generally gets relegated to this definition of craft. Which I would argue is rooted in patriarchy and capitalism and and whatever. And so when I talk about art and I talk about craft, I talk about them as the same thing because I think that they are. And a lot of people fight me on that and whatever. It's important to me to broaden how we think about these concepts, particularly if we're thinking about them as tools within activism. Because when we start to create hierarchies and what's fine art and what's craft and like, all we're doing is continuing to create these silos and these categories that like prioritize one over the other. And I think that craft mediums are generally more accessible and the cost of materials and the time involved in just learning how to get started, it's leveling, right? Because there's such low barriers to entry. Like I teach embroidery all the time and I can teach anybody in like 20 minutes how to embroider. Like it's not hard. And the materials cost, if we're going high end, like 10 bucks you know, per person. So it's like this really fun way of creating access and being able to bring people into community and like they can immediately be successful and feel like, Oh, I can be an artist. And that is so interesting to me to be able to welcome people in and to get them thinking about themselves as artists, who've never thought of themselves In that way because like maybe they can't paint or they're not a good drawer, and it's like, well, art is so much more than those two things. But that's what we sell in galleries and put on walls and uplift as the masters and Wow. Snooze,

Joy Blue 4:06

Wow that's an amazing definition of art. You haven't given your definition of activism yet, but so much of activism, from what I've observed, is creating a space for all the voices to be heard. Which is what you're talking about, of having low barrier to access, using what we have, creating a welcoming space where there isn't a label you can just walk in and be.

Shannon Downey 4:31

Yeah. it's so important. There are wildly talented artists. Um, and I'm thinking like of some people in particular where like they have been making since childhood, right? Their skills in crochet, in knit, in sewing, and embroidery and quilting are unparalleled in their artisanship and they do not think of themselves as artists.

Joy Blue 4:58

Yeah.

Shannon Downey 4:59

And so this is a conversation where I'm also constantly pushing around just like, why are you so afraid of that identity? What have people said to you to make you feel that your work is not the artistry that it is? And it forces people to really think about what they've let in and what they've let people tell them about their worth.

Joy Blue 5:20

Yeah, I've had that own journey for myself with the word creative and creativity,

Shannon Downey 5:25

Sure.

Joy Blue 5:25

I'm a linear thinker. I'm like, give me a prompt. I'll get stuff done, but don't expect me to be the ideator. For me, ideator and creative go together, but creative can be so many more things than that.

Shannon Downey 5:41

You literally created a podcast,

Joy Blue 5:44

Yep. and here we are.

Shannon Downey 5:47

You are a creator,

Joy Blue 5:49

Yeah it's just been an interesting journey. And I love that you again, are making that journey accessible to anyone around you. That's legit. Okay. Tell me your definition of activism.

Shannon Downey 6:01

Mm. I mean that idea of all voices heard, accessibility. But also like I have a, a pretty stringent outlook on, activism in terms of strategically working towards social or political change, right? Outcomes matter and process matters and who's included and what voices are being uplifted and centered matter. And so for me, the idea of the outcome matters a lot. Whereas like with my art and art in general like, I don't actually think the outcome matters all that much. I think it's the process. I think it's the adventure, the journey, and sometimes the outcome matters and sometimes it just doesn't. But when we come around to activism, like outcomes totally matter. And the process matters, but it's outcome driven for me.

Joy Blue 6:51

That is so interesting. Okay. What's your origin story with both of these?

Shannon Downey 6:56

I grew up in the labor movement, like my dad was president in the Boston pipefitters, and so for me, activism was like in my blood. It was in what I did every day. There were always a million people in my house, and it was always fun because we were making signs and we were like making art together to then go stand on a picket line, right? So I'm like six and my house is full of strangers and we're making stuff and we're eating pizza. And it's so loud and chaotic and super fun and everybody's yelling about everything that's happening. And like for me, that was great!

Joy Blue 7:34

Yeah.

Shannon Downey 7:35

And it's always been just sort of a core of my humanness and what I worked on, what I believe has shifted

Joy Blue 7:43

Yeah.

Shannon Downey 7:44

over the course of my life. But, truly believe I'm here to just make life better for as many people as I can and like work alongside people listen to what they want and need and then support that work in whatever way that I can. And, As an artist, it's very funny. Like I did not make art until I don't know, 12 years ago, 15 years ago. Like I was always creative. I was a dancer. I made stuff. It never fit into the category of, what we just talked about in terms of what is art, what is craft, and whatever. And it was interesting growing up with my brother, who's like an insanely talented artist, particularly in the traditional mediums. Like he can draw anything, he can paint anything. It's spectacular. And so, there wasn't room for two artists in the family

Joy Blue 8:39

Yeah. That makes total sense.

Shannon Downey 8:41

So I wasn't. And about, I don't know, like 15 years ago, I started digital marketing company as one does, and ran it for 10 years,

Joy Blue 8:51

naturally.

Shannon Downey 8:52

and by year eight, I was like so burnt out from being connected to a device all the time. Right. Cause I had to be.

Joy Blue 9:00

Right.

Shannon Downey 9:00

and I was on Etsy cuz connected to a device. I came across this cross stitch pattern for, Captain Picard from Star Trek. And nobody loves him more than I do. And I was like, Oh my God, obviously I need to buy this. And like, I learned how to cross stitch in fifth grade, but I had to make a pink bunny with a blue eye.

Joy Blue 9:22

Oh

Shannon Downey 9:22

I was like, Wow, bunnies aren't pink. They don't have blue eyes. This is stupid. What am I supposed to do with this? But I really loved my fifth grade teacher, so I learned. And I made that one thing, and then I didn't make again until I came across the Star Trek pattern.

Joy Blue 9:38

Hmm

Shannon Downey 9:39

Which coincidentally is why in my workshops, like whenever I'm teaching art, I refuse to tell people what content to make. I will teach them how to use the medium and let them decide if they connect with the medium, because I never want the content to get in the way of them deciding if this is their medium, which is what happened to me.

Joy Blue 10:00

Right.

Shannon Downey 10:01

So I stitched Captain Picard and I had great joy. And the next day I was like, Oh my God, I just had three good ideas. I haven't had a good idea in like months. And so I started stitching every day just as a way to create some digital/analog balance in my life. And then it was like game on when I realized that I loved this medium. And, I truly believe I can do anything with a needle and thread everything that I can't do with a pencil or a paintbrush, I can do with a needle and thread. And then connecting the stitching to the activism work that I was deeply involved in, created this whole new pathway to connect with people. Like, people were just like, I wanna learn how to do that. I love what you're doing here. It's so funny to see cross stitch that doesn't say home, Sweet Home, but know, f the system. And I'm like, You could do it too. And so I was like, I can trick people into getting into a room with me to hang out. I'll teach them to Embroider. But really what we're gonna do is talk about all the things that you're not supposed to talk about with strangers in a room. This is gonna be great. And literally it's been like nonstop. I've had hundreds of thousands of people sit in space with me and learn to stitch and, and talk about all the things you're not supposed to talk about and, and like, take action on the things that they care deeply about. And so really folks taking on the identity of activists that they never, ever would've taken that identity on. The same as taking on the identity as artists. So it's been fascinating. And I just kept following it because it was like, I think there's something in this that I never, ever would've thought could be the key to getting people to think about the world differently and getting them to take action on things that they care about just by stitching with me... like what?

Joy Blue 11:59

I am in awe of that.

Shannon Downey 12:01

I know! I'm in awe of it. I can't believe it still works.

Joy Blue 12:05

Well, so much of what you're doing is bringing about what we need as humans. Like I'm hearing you say that you're a facilitator and you create safety in a space for people to be seen and to belong and be part of something. But also people are awkward sometimes, so you're giving them something to do with their hands at the same time, which often then unlocks the thoughts and the words, and that's all part of building community and being a good citizen and like seeing the humanity of the people around you. It sounds like that's just what you live and breathe.

Shannon Downey 12:46

Yeah, basically. It's been interesting to like sort of try to dissect why it's working so much. and just, like I said, hundreds of thousands of people I've literally worked with. One of the bigger challenges is just getting people to like be in space with each other and not be on their devices. and it is not pleasant to be told to put away your device, especially if that's a safety point for you.

Joy Blue 13:11

Correct.

Shannon Downey 13:12

If I say nothing, but I hand you something to do with both of your hands, that is fun, you no longer think about your phone. Additionally, you're using your hands in the same tactile way that you use a phone. So you don't even have that physical need that comes when we sometimes, put down our device and then we're like, what do I do with my hands? You know? So there's that. And then there's the added benefit of you're in a space with people. And somebody might say something that like super triggers you, right? I can create as safe a space as the people in the room will allow

Joy Blue 13:48

Right.

Shannon Downey 13:49

I don't guarantee a comfortable space. I guarantee a safe space. I don't guarantee a comfortable space and huge difference. And I think a lot of people, I think all of us need to be uncomfortable. And we need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Like all we do is seek comfort and that's how, you know so many things just stay the same. So having people in a space that's safe, but maybe not comfortable you're stitching. Your head is down. You're working on this thing, you're talking to each other. If somebody triggers something, One, you don't have any of the like face to face sort of body responses because nobody's looking at anybody. Usually things escalate based on body language. So we've removed body language more or less. Also, you're working on something. So there's no expectation that you're gonna be deeply involved in this conversation at all times. So if you get triggered or you're like, Oh, I need a minute to think about that, or I don't have a response to that, nobody expects you to, you can just sort of go back to what you're doing. You can take a beat. It's slow, it's meditative, and then when you're ready, you can either jump back in or you just don't have to. And It takes a lot of the pressure off. Additionally like embroidery is slow, you know, it's, it's methodical, so the whole energy in the room is slower just as a result of what we're working on. So it really has the perfect cocktail for making sure that these spaces can be productive, but they aren't escalating. Everybody gets to be heard. Everybody gets to say what they wanna say, and it's generally wildly supportive.

Joy Blue 15:37

Huh,

Shannon Downey 15:38

It's magical.

Joy Blue 15:40

What a gift, frankly.

Shannon Downey 15:41

Yeah. it's, it is a gift.

Joy Blue 15:43

I mean, that's an oasis. That's the ability to go slow and exist as your slow self in a space with other people who are also at the same pace.

Shannon Downey 15:53

totally.

Joy Blue 15:54

Wow.

Shannon Downey 15:55

Yeah. it's a rare occurrence in the world, so I feel so lucky that people trust me to do this. And that they'll come. And that they'll participate even when it's uncomfortable.

Joy Blue 16:08

Yeah. Wow. What have you learned about yourself in the middle of this?

Shannon Downey 16:12

That I am really good at bringing people together, right? Because I love people. And they're complicated and we're messy and like we don't do everything right and there is no right. And so it's really good to be able to be in these spaces with that perspective so that I can meet the needs of everybody in the room.

Joy Blue 16:38

Yeah.

Shannon Downey 16:39

I think too, like sometime, when you're younger, like you just sort of, I don't even know if it's an age thing, it might just be a maturity thing. We'll put it at that, like a less mature me, would wanna be the star in the room. I have no interest in that and that has made this possible. Like for me, it is not successful if I leave that space and what was created there doesn't carry on. That's a failure, like an epic fail for me. So for me, I will be the catalyst that brings you all together. I'll model and demonstrate how we can create these spaces and how we can treat each other. And then the objective is that I leave. But you all keep doing this. And it's so exciting when I see it happen real time. A lot of times I, I hear about it after. But when I get to see it real time, like there was one recently in Salt Lake City and we weren't even halfway through the event, and this person was like, We have to keep doing this. Right? We all agree that we have to keep doing this. And I was like, You should keep doing this. And she's like, Okay, I'm gonna gather everybody's emails and, and like now they meet regularly and they didn't know each other before it, you know? So That is that's my vision of a win. Is like I can just pop in, teach you some stuff, hang out, have a joke, have some fun, and then when I leave, you want that again.

Joy Blue 18:05

Wow. So what I think I'm hearing you say is you are comfortable in yourself to such a degree that when you show up in the room, you show up as you for the sake of community.

Shannon Downey 18:20

Perfect summation. I mean, feels like this is the first time in my life where I'm like 100% comfortable and feel like this is what I'm supposed to be doing. This is what I'm meant to do in this world.

Joy Blue 18:36

I mean, that's also the essence of leadership. That's the essence of growth and the essence of curiosity is continuing to look forward and say, What can I do to be more me in this moment?

Shannon Downey 18:48

Yeah.

Joy Blue 18:49

and it sounds like that's not only what you enable in groups, but that's fully what you've done for yourself.

Shannon Downey 18:56

Yes. Thank you, I mean, I, it really is a gift to myself to be where I'm at, just feeling like I am a kind and loving person and I also have excellent boundaries for myself and will not tolerate the nonsense.

Joy Blue 19:12

Yeah.

Shannon Downey 19:13

But they're not in opposition to each other. And I think that's key. Is that that idea of like, I show up as a kind and loving person, but also, don't show up as your worst self towards me and expect me to welcome that with open arms cuz I don't.

Joy Blue 19:32

That's amazing. Okay, final question. What do you wish people knew about art as activism or activism or art? What's just one thing if people remembered one thing?

Shannon Downey 19:45

Everyone is totally capable of all of the above. Like you can have incredible impact in your own life, in the lives of your family, community, globally. If you just start doing stuff. And it, it's not like you have to do a lot. It's just like a little bit all the time adds up so much. And so that's the thing I'm always pushing is like, Okay. How can you do one more thing tomorrow? And like, own that identity, Own the identity of artist. If you make art, you're an artist. Woo. It's that simple. Like you you get to have that identity. If you take action, you get to, to call yourself an activist. And we lose nothing when people own those identities. Like the more people that own those identities, the better off we are. Like nobody loses. And so that notion that honestly capitalism has us, if it's not what you do for pay, it's not an identity you get to claim unless you have a portfolio to prove this thing. Like what garbage! Do you think of yourself as an artist? Do you believe, do you make art? You're an artist. And so I'm all about everybody owning all of their identities and claiming them and not letting other people make them feel like they don't have enough in their portfolio of goods to, um, to have that.

Joy Blue 21:13

Everything you're talking about comes back to the core of enoughness. You have done the work to know that you are indeed enough. And you create spaces where people can show up and also indeed be enough. And then multiply that and roll with it. I mean, That is also so much of what activism is.

Shannon Downey 21:31

Yes,

Joy Blue 21:32

what a gift it is to be able to sit here with you and to share this space.

Shannon Downey 21:37

Thanks for letting me talk

Joy Blue 21:40

So here we are! So many of my conversations in the past month or two have come back to the core of knowing your own, knowing my own enoughness. I love how Shannon embodies, enoughness. How that overflows into the environments that she fosters. And if this piqued your interest, as it did mine, head over to Shannon's website: badasscrossstitch.com to see when and where she having classes and look at what art activism physically looks like. Shannon, thank you so much for the gift of your time and for how you foster community everywhere you go. You are amazing. If you've got a flavor of nerd that you want me to celebrate, I would love to hear all about it. So go ahead and email me at herewearethepodcast@gmail.com and tell me everything. I love taking time to sit and make space for nerd to be celebrated. If you really liked this podcast and want to financially support what I'm doing, head on over to patreon.com. Search for here we are the podcast, and sign up for one of the many beautifully written support tiers that I'm very proud of. So until next time. Don't forget that curiosity wins. And the world needs more nerds Bye