Here We Are: What Makes Us Human

69. Halee Raff [Do What You Want]

• Joy Blue, Halee Raff • Episode 69

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Today's interview is with Chef Halee Raff, known in the Chicagoland area for her amazing gourmet pop-tarts. But there is so much more to Halee than pop-tarts! Tune in to learn more.

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Joy Blue:

Welcome to Here We Are, the podcast where we celebrate the beauty of being a nerd by learning about nerdy things from fellow nerds. I'm your host, Joy Blue. Today's guest is a Michelin trained chef who specializes in following her curiosity towards all things culinary: savory, sweet, massive, hot, and everything in between. We're going to talk about so many fun food things. I could keep going, but why would I? Without further ado here is chef Halee Raff to tell us all about her career with foods.

Halee Raff:

My name is Halee Raff and I am the chef of Hard Bittenn in Chicago. We are three years old and we make gourmet pop-tarts, cakes, catering, private chef, wholesale bakery. We also do the cheesecakes for Golden Girls and the Barbie doll pop-up cake pops. We're all over the place.

Joy Blue:

That's amazing. I have so many questions just about those individual items. I think you're known a lot for the Pop-Tarts, is that correct?

Halee Raff:

Yes, the Pop-Tarts are what make the money so I can continue doing all the other fun stuff that I like doing.

Joy Blue:

That's amazing.

Halee Raff:

the bills.

Joy Blue:

Yep. Yep. And you make those and then sell them through retailers. Right. That's so cool. I need to find a place to get them. I'm starting to tell all my friends about you, and they're like, excuse me, where do we get them?

Halee Raff:

We deliver.

Joy Blue:

oh this is very exciting. We will have a side discussion about this very shortly.

Halee Raff:

Yeah.

Joy Blue:

Okay. So somehow you got the idea about Pop-Tarts. How long has that been around?

Halee Raff:

So when I started Hard Bittenn in the early pandemic, after I got laid off of my job, I was making pasta and selling it. And I got really burnt out really quickly of doing it cuz it got really busy and I was up till 5:00 AM every day making pasta. It was, it got to be too much and I just started experimenting to see what else I can do and sell to kind of hope that I can continue the momentum. And people would continue buying from me. I didn't wanna fade away. I wanted people to just be like, yeah, we can order from Halee we can get this. And I came out with like my own line of pastries, which included the Pop-Tarts, cakes, cinnamon rolls, and they all just blew up. I have a really good resume because I've worked in fine dining Michelin restaurants for a majority of my career. So people were like, oh, wow. A Michelin trained chef is cooking and doing all these pastries. Let's get it, let's try it. And it just kind of kept growing and going from there. And the Pop-Tarts are just what blew up the mouths.

Joy Blue:

Wow.

Halee Raff:

it's, it was super intense. And the reason I started making Pop-Tarts is because I saw a baker in like Texas who made Pop-Tarts and hers were nice. I just saw on Instagram, it was, I wasn't following this person. And I was like, oh, the pop tarts look cool, but I can make them better. And I was like, no one in Chicago's doing them. So I was like, I will try it. And it just, it worked and it blew up. And we were two, when I say we, I mean we, cuz now I have a team, but for a year and a half it was just me. I was two weeks out in order and it was, it was tiring. It was really cool.

Joy Blue:

Wow. It all started with Pop-Tarts, Pop-Tarts is your foundation. They're still your foundation. I'm assuming there's a lot of things that you've tried and you kind of threw it against the wall. Some of them stuck, some of them didn't. Outside of the Pop-Tarts, what has been one of your favorite things that has stuck?

Halee Raff:

I would say the cakes. I've never done cakes before, like baking and decorating. And in the beginning it was very sloppy and it was not great. And I had some wonderful customers who were just like, oh. We don't care if we wanna support Haley and we'll buy her cakes, even though they were not what they look like, right, right now. But I learned how to do it properly and I figured out my own way of decorating and my own style of cakes. And now it makes up a majority of our business as well.

Joy Blue:

That's amazing.

Halee Raff:

Pop-Tarts, but something I just kind of tried. I was like, I'll just give it a shot. How hard could it be? And the cakes blew up on their own. And now we're just, we're doing like anywhere between eight to 15 cakes a week, which is a lot for us, especially, cause I'm the only one who does the cakes,

Joy Blue:

Yeah.

Halee Raff:

so that's a lot for me and I deliver everything. So, I, it's, if I have more than like 12, I get a little stressed out.

Joy Blue:

For sure. What I love about what I'm hearing you say is that you've just been continually following your curiosity. So like, yeah, you lost your job during Covid, A lot of us did. And then you creatively pivoted using what you had. And what it sounds like is your creativity is still alive and very well, and you've done a good job of, of not moving into burnout. What's that been like for you?

Halee Raff:

I appreciate that. Thank you for all of the really nice things that you said. So I. I experienced a bit of a burnout a little bit ago, I would say the end of last summer. And it's because ever since I started Hard Bittenn, it's been just nonstop. I am too afraid to just stop or to take a break because I want to always be there for your orders and for the people who wanna place their orders and. I really wanted Hard Bittenn to become something. I wanted to become something. And my history of working in kitchens, like where I come from, you don't take breaks, you don't have days off. You work 15 hour days straight, which I loved it then, and I still sometimes miss it. But it's different when you work for yourself because I can't just go take a break. I can't go take a vacation. I can't call out of work today. Like people depend on me and I like the responsibility. It's just, it's just something that I had to just keep going. It's like a dark tunnel and then you see the bright end, you just have to kind of keep going. At this point, things are going too well through pause for a little while. I'm, I'm not one of those people. I don't let people down.

Joy Blue:

Yeah.

Halee Raff:

So we continued.

Joy Blue:

That is on one hand, a very motivating place to be, and on the other hand, it's extremely exhausting.

Halee Raff:

It's okay. Because I would much rather be working for myself than working for other people and be stressed about my business, and I would rather be stressed about because of how busy we are than not. So, we continue.

Joy Blue:

That's beautiful. So you have your, your good old staples. You've learned a lot. What is on the horizon? What are you excited about trying next? Where's your creativity taking you?

Halee Raff:

That is a very loaded question, because I get asked that a lot. And I am a bit secretive about what my next steps will be because I don't like people knowing what I'm doing. I want, I'm one of those people that just likes to move forward without other people knowing. I don't post about, I don't post about the good or bad, I just post, I just talk about the medium. And then one day I'll be here and then in two months I'll be up here because something, something I like to move quietly. I believe that we will be extending Hard Bittenn a bit. But I really do miss kitchens.

Joy Blue:

Huh.

Halee Raff:

I don't miss the environment. I don't miss the people. I don't miss really anything except the food and the kitchen, like service of actually the cooking for people in the heat. I might wanna be in a restaurant again and I'm, but I, again, don't see myself working for another person, so I don't know if I wanna be the chef. I don't know what I wanna do. I started Hard Bittenn with the idea that this was not going to be like, permanent. There's a reason I didn't open a restaurant, and it's because I didn't want the overhead. I didn't want the responsibility, and I didn't wanna be tied to it. So what if I decide like I don't wanna. I don't wanna do this anymore. I wanna be able to just kind of close up and not do it anymore. So that is the position that I'm in and that is what I want. I am someone who likes to think on my feet. I don't like planning very much. I don't like structure. So I wanna, if, if in two months I'm like, I don't really wanna do this anymore. I don't know what I wanna do, or maybe I'm gonna move it to another state, or who knows? But I like having the option that this is just completely mine and I get to do whatever I want with it. So to answer your question, I don't fully know what I wanna do. I do miss fine dining. But working for yourself is such a cooler, better environment for me.

Joy Blue:

Yep.

Halee Raff:

So I don't really see myself going back to it. I think I just miss the intensity of it a bit.

Joy Blue:

That makes sense.

Halee Raff:

I just like doing whatever I want every day

Joy Blue:

That's

Halee Raff:

and I get to decline orders. I get to do more orders, some weekends I have off because I don't have any events like I wanna be able to do whatever I want,

Joy Blue:

Yep.

Halee Raff:

and I would prefer this than working 80 hour weeks.

Joy Blue:

Yeah. You value independence.

Halee Raff:

So I don't know. I don't know where I'm gonna be. I don't know what I'm gonna do. Hard Bittenn is not supposed to be the most permanent thing ever. But that's why we celebrate each year that we're still here. Now that we just reached three years great. That's amazing. Hopefully another year, maybe another year after that. Maybe not. Maybe we'll only do it a few more months. whatever I want.

Joy Blue:

That's amazing because I feel like it's pretty rare for people who start businesses to walk forward with open hands because there is so much at stake. And so there's something that I love in your tone of I. I'm gonna follow the curiosity till it's not fun anymore. I have so many questions. I saw on Instagram that one of the things you like to do is ginormous spreads on tables for events.

Halee Raff:

Mm-hmm.

Joy Blue:

Where did that start? How do you even plan that? How far in advance do you need to plan that? How it's magical. How?

Halee Raff:

Thank you. Those are our grazing tables, and it's, like platters, meat, cheese, vegetable platters out nicely. The reason that they started is because I saw other people doing them, and I thought that I know how to do that, and I'll do it too. Right. I know I, it's not that difficult. Sourcing everything, I think is the hardest part. Getting all the correct meats, cheeses, vegetables, fruit. You're not just gonna have apples, bananas, and oranges. You want the really nice fruit and things that you can't just get at, your local Jewel. Like I sourcing everything I think is the hardest, but Grazing tables are probably one of our easiest things that we do, because there's not any cooking involved. There's not a lot of production other than just cutting things and being organized. Yeah, they're a lot of fun and they look beautiful, and they're just, they're so much different than doing platters I saw other people doing it and I said, why can't I do it? So I started doing it. I get to do whatever I want.

Joy Blue:

which is lovely

Halee Raff:

Thank you.

Joy Blue:

cuz you have a very powerful curiosity

Halee Raff:

Mm-hmm.

Joy Blue:

How do you even start planning something like that? Like I am not a fancy meats person. My wife loves making charcuterie boards and all of that, but what's the process in your head when you're thinking about what goes with what?

Halee Raff:

I just do whatever I want.

Joy Blue:

That's amazing.

Halee Raff:

honestly, I see it and I'm like, that sounds good. That'll do. Yeah, I, I, I, you should believe me that grazing tables are, are like easy items because I don't have to make anything. It's not like I make the cheese or the meats. And if I had to make the meats, that would take forever and that would suck. it's really not too difficult for me. I have been making platters like my entire career in restaurants and stuff, so it's not hard for me. And also, there's so much inspiration online that I can pull up like a grazing table from some girl and so-and-so that she did and be like, oh, that looks great. I'm gonna copy that.

Joy Blue:

That's so cool. And here we are, we're back to the open hands of what I love experiencing about you is not only are you open-handed towards yourself, but you're also open-handed toward others.

Halee Raff:

Yeah.

Joy Blue:

a big deal too.

Halee Raff:

Thank you. Yeah, there's a lot of people who don't really like the things I'm doing or the food that we do, and that's okay. Eat it or don't

Joy Blue:

And that's up to you. You're, you enable people to have agency.

Halee Raff:

I don't care. It's not, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. You can get your cake from me, you can get it from someone else. There are a lot other things to be worrying about,

Joy Blue:

Hmm.

Halee Raff:

and if you're not happy with something that I have done for you, whether it's a cake, whether it's Pop-Tarts, whether it's a dinner, I hope that, people have expressed, of course, we were upset. The cake wasn't this, or this wasn't this. I will always make it right. I will always try and make it right. I'm not like you're stuck with it. If the cake is not what you thought it would be, I will take it back and I will redo it for you. It is not that difficult, and if you're not happy, if something's wrong, I'll just refund the order. I want you to be happy and I think that you were to actually reach out to like majority of my customers, you would find that that is my, like I will work with you one-on-one until you are happy. Let me take the cake back. Let me take the whatever back and I will fix it. I'm so sorry. But if you don't like my food, don't order for me. Again. I don't,

Joy Blue:

Yeah.

Halee Raff:

I don't care.

Joy Blue:

that just sounds like amazing boundaries though, on top of great customer service.

Halee Raff:

It's, it's very one-sided with me. If you wanna refund, great. If you don't wanna refund, I'll make it better. And if you don't want that, then I can you just not order from you then if you're not happy. I don't, not that it's not that deep. I, there are so, there are bigger things in the world to be worrying about.

Joy Blue:

Yeah. Okay. Thinking about your culinary career, across all of it, what has been a moment or a meal or a revelation or something that you've had that you are really proud of?

Halee Raff:

Okay. That there's a lot of answers to that, but I think the one that's sticking out to me is because of the example that I set in my kitchen. My cooks have learned from me by watching me

Joy Blue:

Mm-hmm.

Halee Raff:

and. Respecting their work and the food. We respect the food. This is stuff going into people's bodies. And we care about what we do. I show up every day. I clean, I'm here, and to see my cooks, like, I don't need to yell at them and say, Hey, this is wrong. Why is this wrong? They just do it because I set that example. And one of my cooks says to me the other day, he says, we were talking about respect for food. Like why I respect the food and why we all need to respect the food. And he's like, yeah. He's like, you know, on my first day here when I was just interviewing here, I saw you wash dishes. That is like the coolest thing ever. What boss starts a business and just happens to be here every day and is washing the dishes like he never complains about washing dishes.

Joy Blue:

Yep

Halee Raff:

so I was really proud of that.

Joy Blue:

that's beautiful.

Halee Raff:

Thanks. Thanks.

Joy Blue:

Leading By example is, is really a big deal.

Halee Raff:

Mm-hmm.

Joy Blue:

Like some of the places I've been most amazed is when I walk in and there is very little power distance. Like, Yes, you run the company and also. You're a part of the every day. Cuz I think we so often experience the leader as quite a few levels separated and unaware from what the normal people are doing. And so that actually brings my heart a lot of joy to hear that like you're creating an environment where everybody is on the same team. That's beautiful. That's rare. I love that.

Halee Raff:

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. I, if I respect the food, they'll respect the food and you will be able to see the love and the respect that we show in our food just by eating a pop tart and saying, wow, this was made by someone who gave a shit. When my cooks begin working for me when we're interviewing, even people who don't work for me, I always tell the same thing. If you are having a bad day, if you are sad, if you're mad about what's going on with you and your boyfriend and you got into a fight with your mom, it'll show in the food that something is wrong. And I would, I would prefer you not be here at all. I know that life doesn't stop and we all have things going on, but you need to learn to be able to just kind of set it aside for a little while and put your heart and your work into what you're doing, whether you're a handyman, whether you're making food, whether you, do nails. It all comes from love. And again, if you are sad or going through something in the world, it'll show in the food. And I can always come in and look at it something and be like, you okay today? So

Joy Blue:

Wow.

Halee Raff:

we respect each other. We respect the food, we respect our kitchen. We clean every day. And I hope that it is a reflection on what I make and show to the world and say, look, I made this cake. It doesn't look like much to you, but to me, I, There was a lot of love that went.

Joy Blue:

Yeah. Wow. That put words to some feelings I had that didn't, I didn't know had words. Thank you so much for sharing that.

Halee Raff:

You're welcome.

Joy Blue:

What's something you think people should know something more about in terms of cooking, in terms of your job, in terms of, you name it.

Halee Raff:

I hate when people say, follow your dreams. Do what you, what you wanna do. And I, I really only mean that in the terms of more of like maybe just the cooking world, cuz I don't really know much about other worlds,

Joy Blue:

Sure.

Halee Raff:

other jobs. This isn't something where you can just wake up one day and be like, I'm gonna open a business. I'm gonna run a kitchen, I'm gonna open a restaurant. It like, I have this conversation with other people in the industry like, don't do this. It's really hard. It's not for weak people, and you are gonna be working 24 hours a day. Even when you're asleep, you're gonna be working because you're gonna hear an email and be like, oh my God, I gotta respond to it, because it's probably important. And it is. All of your customers are important and you wanna make them feel important. It's expensive. And it's not like we need more bakeries and more cake decorators and more cookies. Like the, this stuff is really hard.

Joy Blue:

Yeah. Really take time to consider.

Halee Raff:

You really need to consider it. I'm, I'm very cynical. I'm a pessimist. My business is called Hard Bittenn. It's another word for cynical.

Joy Blue:

Mm-hmm.

Halee Raff:

Like I, I think that I'm just more realistic. And in the beginning when I started this, I think that's the reason why people gravitated towards Hard Bittenn is because I was more realistic about things about the world and what was going on. Everything sucks. We're in a pandemic like, Things really suck. Instead of me saying everything's great, everything will be fine, everything will be over with, and we'll be able to go back to normal. No, everything sucks. You should eat my food though.

Joy Blue:

Yeah. That's the one thing everybody needs. That's the place of, connection is around food, is around a table. I've come back to that point in so many of my interviews where we end up talking about what happens at the kitchen table, what happens when you do ingest food that is made with love and it is made with care.

Halee Raff:

Mm-hmm.

Joy Blue:

has a very powerful outcome,

Halee Raff:

Mm-hmm.

Joy Blue:

and I love that you get to be a part of that.

Halee Raff:

Thank you. Thanks.

Joy Blue:

Thank you so much for your time. This has been absolutely fantastic.

Halee Raff:

Thank you for having me.

Joy Blue:

So here we are! What a fun journey that was! Halee's story outlines so many aspects of curiosity that I personally want to embody. Like the ability to stay open with projects and experiments, caring about what I create enough that I want to bring my best self always, and continuing to search for inspiration and seeing where the path leads. Halee thank you so much for your time, your care for food, and your continued contribution of goodness into the world. If you've got a flavor of nerd you want me to celebrate, I would love to hear all about it. So go ahead and email me at herewearethepodcast@gmail.com and tell me everything. I love taking time to sit and make space for nerd to be celebrated. If you really liked this podcast and want to financially support what I'm doing, head on over to patreon.com, search for Here We Are The Podcast and sign up for one of the many beautifully written support tiers. So until next time, don't forget that curiosity wins and the world needs more nerds. Bye