Here We Are: What Makes Us Human

70. Ella Featherstone [Empathy]

• Joy Blue, Ella Featherstone • Episode 70

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Empathy is more than just a trend. It is a dedication to care - for yourself first, and then others. Tune in as Joy and Ella dive into this feelingful topic!


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Joy Blue:

Welcome to here. We are the podcast where we celebrate the beauty of being a nerd by learning about nerdy things from fellow nerds. I'm your host, joy blue. You are in for a real treat today. Buckle up settling. And prepare to feel a bit. I met today's guest on a gig and we hit it off so well, I am really, really excited to introduce you to one of my friends. Uh, fellow empath and a solid all around human. So without further ado here's ella featherstone to chat with us about empathy

Ella Featherstone:

Hi, I'm Ella Featherstone. I am a production coordinator in the live events and corporate world. I like books and plants and making friends with new people.

Joy Blue:

I love this for you and me. how did we meet?

Ella Featherstone:

on a children's robotics show.

Joy Blue:

did. It was great.

Ella Featherstone:

in a place I never thought I would be. That's for sure. Which is scary cavernous back of house with no windows

Joy Blue:

yeah, and just air flowing into our little space, which is better than stagnant air.

Ella Featherstone:

in Dallas, Texas.

Joy Blue:

There we go. The last stage that The Beatles played on, Apparently. One of the things I loved about you is that we speak the same languages. We speak the languages of self progression. We speak the languages of therapy, we speak the language of production and we speak the language of kindness, which. Sometimes is ridiculously hard to find. So once I realized we were cut from the same cloth, I was like, hello, you are my new work bestie. And it got to the point where every day we were on this gig for like two weeks and Brie would be like, so how's Ella? That's what happens when you're my work bestie. My wifey asks about you.

Ella Featherstone:

We wore work wives on that show

Joy Blue:

It was wonderful. And so that kind of segues us into our topic for today. What do you want a nerd out about?

Ella Featherstone:

Well, firstly, this was like extremely hard for me to choose a topic that I felt I was worthy to discuss. I think so often our hobbies and interests align with our work or are identified through like our family or our friends or aspects of our self identity. So I was like, I could talk about books or I could talk about something very physical, but I think that the thing that I ended up landing on was empathy. I think the concept of self empathy for others, especially in the field that we work in and the fields that I've worked in previously, is deeply important to the way in which I learned to communicate and to build friendships around.

Joy Blue:

Okay. This is so interesting. You just said that so naturally, but there's so many different things inside of just that one statement. Okay. Let's start with the definition. How would you define empathy? And then how would you define self empathy?

Ella Featherstone:

I think empathy, as cheesy as it is like walking in someone else's shoes. It's being able to extract your own ego and your own self from a situation and be able to place yourself in the person's position and who you wanna relate to or in who you walk into a room and automatically feel the energy pulled towards and being able to identify how that's making you feel and understanding that's actually coming from them.

Joy Blue:

Unpack that a little more. That's fascinating.

Ella Featherstone:

I think that so much of my empathy comes from my awareness of self. I think that because I can easily identify how I'm feeling in a situation, so, The other emotions that come to me when I meet a new person or when I enter a space in which someone is feeling uncomfortable or sad or angry or upset. It's so easy for me to identify, that's not a part of myself and and I can relate to that emotion and feel that emotion and be able to help that person overcome or just be a support system to them, or shoulder to cry on or a hug, or bring my own energy into that space and lighten the mood as best as I can. So,

Joy Blue:

I love the way you said that is that took me a long time to learn. The ability to walk in and notice what is somebody else's and notice what is mine. Was there a time where you suddenly realized you could do that? What's your journey been like with being able to separate that?

Ella Featherstone:

I think the more noticeable aspect of it is that I realized that it was something that other people couldn't necessarily always do. Not something that I realized one day that I could uniquely do it. It was something that I realized the people I didn't like around myself couldn't do. notice how I was feeling or how our friends were feeling and be able to not necessarily shift yourself to make them feel better, but be aware and conscious of how they're feeling and how your actions can influence the way that situation you're in is going to go. Because if you walk in a room and someone's pissed off, you can feed into that pissed off energy, or you can choose to be the opposite of it, or you can choose to help that person unpack it.

Joy Blue:

Yeah. And again, that comes back to a topic that. Ends up on this podcast a lot, which is agency. The ability to make decisions for yourself, to separate your experience from somebody else's, to take responsibility for what you are feeling, as opposed to co codependency, which is being responsible for the feelings of someone else. Like it took me so long to be able to be responsible for just my feelings and not project that on somebody.

Ella Featherstone:

And maybe it's like even less of the concept of empathy and more the concept.Of awareness.

Joy Blue:

Tell me more

Ella Featherstone:

for me, I think for me, those two terms go hand in hand, and maybe that's in part the way I was raised, or in part the way that I choose to experience the world or want to represent myself in the world. But I think that awareness and empathy go hand in hand because. You need to be aware of those around you and aware of your own feelings and your own biases and your own thoughts, and also others biases and thoughts and opinions that are around you, and the empathy aspect is what you choose to do with that.

Joy Blue:

So we're not just talking then about the act of empathy. We are talking about the ability to walk into a space and understand what's happening? What's my role in it? What's your role in it? And to be able to consciously choose what you want to do in that space.

Ella Featherstone:

And without losing yourself.

Joy Blue:

Okay. That's a huge principle right there in and of itself. I lost myself for so many years because the way to survive was to blend in and be what other people wanted you to do. What's that been like for you?

Ella Featherstone:

I think that for a very long time I tried to be like a chameleon. Very similar to the shared situations that we've discussed, in which the environment that I was in, through my early years was one that did not foster a lot of the principles that I like choose to believe now.

Joy Blue:

Yeah,

Ella Featherstone:

And I think that instead of choosing the path of self-discovery and of self growth, I chose to just choose aspects and traits and characteristics of people around me who I admired or who I wanted to be like. And I took those on and I moved from like a huge school to a very small school in my transition from like middle school to high school,

Joy Blue:

Yeah,

Ella Featherstone:

I moved from chicago, in which I was supposed to have a graduating class of 880 people to a small town of Sedona, Arizona, where I had a graduating class of 75 people. So it allowed me to, well, it forced me to no longer chameleon because there wasn't enough people to hide behind.

Joy Blue:

Right. Wow, that's a really big deal.

Ella Featherstone:

Yeah.

Joy Blue:

What did you notice in yourself? What were the pinch points?

Ella Featherstone:

I was not my own. I was, I was not my own person. I was the collective parts of other people that I liked. And I think a lot of us, that's of course how I found some of the aspects of myself that I also liked the most is because I was able to see things in other people that I wanted. Maybe wanted is the wrong term that I admired or that I desired to emulate.

Joy Blue:

To try on.

Ella Featherstone:

Yeah like bits and pieces of people that I was like, Ooh, like I like that hat. I like that t-shirt. I like those pair of pants. But when it came to it and I was essentially picked up and plopped into this place, I could not identify who I was.

Joy Blue:

I resonate with that a lot.

Ella Featherstone:

And I think it's rare because I think a lot of people don't experience that until they're maybe outside of college and they finally have stopped traveling on this path that was paved by our parents and paved by the environment and the community that we grew up in. And I moved from such a vastly different community. I moved from like a city to a spiritual hub that like the path that was paved for me, entirely changed. And I think that I could have chosen to take two paths for that. And I like chose to take the path of figuring out who I was instead of continuing to hide behind other people. And then from that I was able to pull myself and my emotions and my feelings and recognize that was me. And recognize when it wasn't me, when it was my parents or my sister or my friends around me or my teachers, because we forget that all of these people around us are still learning and growing. I went to school for elementary education. I was a first grade teacher for a little bit. It was such a weird Parallel to look at like a first grade teacher, look at all of my friends around me who are all teachers and see them as my peers. But then also remember like my first grade teacher and what I looked up to and how I thought they had so much of their life together, when in actuality they were also probably just 25, 26, 27 year olds who were just figuring out the world just like I was.

Joy Blue:

Yeah, what you're talking about is a difference in worldview. I grew up similar to you, different environment, a lot of the same messages, and what I heard was, you have to be this way in order to succeed, in order to be a part of this community. And it wasn't until I felt a lot of pain that I started to realize, oh, I do have a choice here. The choices have been made for me to this point, and I've been creative in figuring out how do I survive as a human. But what I'm hearing you say over and over again is you noticed that you had the opportunity to make a choice for yourself. And you did it. And I think that's something that you and I have both done, that if you look at our age peer groups, that's not necessarily something that is normal. So you and I get called old souls which basically means we grew up faster than we needed to, and we have awareness of what's going on around us because we've had to do the work to learn how to separate ourselves from that. And what I see in you is the ability to choose. And you have intentionally chosen yourself over and over again when the path that's been laid out in front of you could lead to a good life. And what I've seen you do is decide to choose for you. I've seen you choose yourself, and I've seen you try and I've seen you. Forge your own path, and that's a really beautiful thing.

Ella Featherstone:

What a deep compliment to receive.

Joy Blue:

I'm here for you. That's what happens when I find a soul that I resonate with.

Ella Featherstone:

It is always so jarring to find people in whom you can have the deepest of conversations with even, though you met them less than two months ago. I have rarely sat down and talked to other people about the concept of self-discovery or finding your own identity in the challenges that the world places in front of you.

Joy Blue:

Right.

Ella Featherstone:

So it's, it's also refreshing to be seen.

Joy Blue:

Yeah. It's terrifyingly fantastic.

Ella Featherstone:

Yeah, I don't know. I dunno if this falls under empathy anymore. Maybe we have to like braise it as something else.

Joy Blue:

I think it can be a multitude of things. We might have a starting point of empathy, but the beautiful thing about how this podcast happens is we just follow our curiosity and see where it takes us.

Ella Featherstone:

Yeah,

Joy Blue:

To sum up some stuff we've been talking about so far. So we started with the point of empathy and then. I heard you talk about the ability to be able to separate your feelings from other people, and then we started talking about self-discovery, and then we've talked about how there's parts of each other that we can definitely resonate with on a deep level and say, I do see you, what you've been through is a hundred percent valid. And so reflecting back on some of your journey to getting to this point, And this is like a, just take whatever you think humble is and throw it away. What are you most proud of in yourself? Because this is hard stuff, so like I know it's been painful to get to where you are. I imagine there's been a lot of wrestling in yourself and a lot of trying to figure out what actually is me. So what have been some of your really proud points along the way?

Ella Featherstone:

Well, I really only started doing this because I was having really bad panic attacks. I think that I didn't know how to identify them for a really long time. I just thought it was me processing through emotions. And ever since I was a little kid, I always had the like, cries, like where I could never catch my breath. And so I think that it just became like a normal part of my life to have panic attacks was just, it was something that I didn't even acknowledge, like in myself or with my parents. It was like uh, the quiet suffering in the corner

Joy Blue:

Yeah.

Ella Featherstone:

was a lot of what I viewed my panic text as. I got to college. And I went and joined the honors program. I was in the honors college at my university. I joined a ton of clubs. I basically became an exact replica of what I was in high school, but at the college level. And it was too much. I went to a very small high school in which I was already academically advanced because I came from a very privileged school system up until high school, and then I went to high school in a very underprivileged area, just Arizona being so low in education. So I thought I had it all figured out. And I got a really bad panic attack where I like had to go sit outside and put my head in between my knees and take some really deep breaths. And I finally realized that I needed to talk to my parents about it and probably get some help because

Joy Blue:

Yeah.

Ella Featherstone:

It was dilapidating me to the point where I was not getting good grades, I was not being active in clubs and I was just trying to hide it. So

Joy Blue:

Yeah,

Ella Featherstone:

I started going to therapy. I was the first member of my family to go to therapy.

Joy Blue:

that's a big deal.

Ella Featherstone:

both of my parents have done a ton of work throughout their life. I deeply applaud them for being so influential and so open to the concept of receiving help. Both my parents have done life coaching for a really long time, but what I was seeking was like therapy over life coaching which I think. I viewed as a negative term, like nobody in my family ever curated therapy as a negative term, but I viewed it as being problematic.

Joy Blue:

Yeah, that makes total sense.

Ella Featherstone:

So I started going to therapy, and I think that's maybe one of the things I'm most proud of. Because I think I could have coped with it in a lot of other ways. I could have turned I, I did for a while turn to. Other methods. I smoked a lot of weed in college to try to cope with the feeling anxiety. And so I think like finally actually turning to someone and seeking help and being willing actually do the work behind it because it's one thing to go to someone and. Just talk about your life, which I think is super important. That's the foundation of therapy. I just got a new therapist and I had to do that for several months with them before I could start getting back into the work. But I think when I made the decision after I'd been given the tools to overcome my panic attacks and how to live with them and cope with them and know what my triggers were, I decided that I wanted to continue to delve into the aspects of myself that fostered the panic attacks, like fed into them.

Joy Blue:

Mm.

Ella Featherstone:

the bits of of my anxiety that so deeply, how do I wanna phrase it? I wanted to do the work in identifying the aspects of myself that gave my higher self permission to have panic attacks.

Joy Blue:

Yeah, sure.

Ella Featherstone:

And I think that, Was maybe like still the hardest decision I ever had to make in my adult life so far. Granted, I am only 25, so I'm sure there will be many other decisions that will come in life, but at the moment, the choice to take the next step in myself and then investing in myself in that capacity. Was really important to me.

Joy Blue:

Yeah, there's so many things I just heard in what you said. You noticed there was a crossroad in front of you. You had the personal agency to say, I'm going to choose to move toward what will be initially more uncomfortable, but I know will benefit me in the long term. You were humble and you asked for help, and then you were met with true empathy. And so now we're back to the topic of empathy. And because you were able to experience empathy, you learn different ways of showing that to yourself and showing that to those around you. It's in some ways, the therapy is like the domino effect. Once you start playing with it, the more you realize, or the more I have realized there are certain things that are now deal breakers in my life. Hanging out with people that are not empathetic, no, thank you. I appreciate who you are, and this intersection is not where we will be right now. I see you choosing yourself. I see you choosing growth. I see you making a difference in the world around you because of the decisions you've made towards yourself. kinda like what Brene Brown talks about of you cannot truly help others. I know. Until you have allowed yourself to be truly helped. So the act of going to therapy is saying, I admit I need help. This is beyond my control. And then you are met with that empathy, which then allows you to truly show up in the room with other people and provide empathy when appropriate. It's amazing.

Ella Featherstone:

I think that everyone should go to therapy. Like everybody I talk to, I'm like, you know, have you ever thought about going to therapy? It has created so much freedom in myself. And has given me a space with a truly unbiased person, which I think a lot of people don't experience in life. Until you give yourself the opportunity to have those kind of conversations. Because I, regardless of whether or not people intend to have their biases come into conversations, they always do. And the only true unbiased conversations I feel like I have are with my therapist and with my like business coach

Joy Blue:

That's amazing.

Ella Featherstone:

who only truly care about like me. And how often do you have someone in your life like that?

Joy Blue:

They have vested interest in you succeeding.

Ella Featherstone:

Yeah.

Joy Blue:

It's a beautiful thing. What do you wish people knew about empathy or what do you wish people would try?

Ella Featherstone:

I think a lot of people close themselves off to empathy because it's viewed as a weakness. I think showing emotions, especially from what I've observed in like the corporate realm, has not really been accepted until recently,

Joy Blue:

Yep.

Ella Featherstone:

and I think people think empathy makes you weak when I think that some of the strongest people that I've met in my industry and in the surrounding industries around me are the most empathetic people. Because how are you supposed to be a strong leader or an influential changemaker if you cannot relate to those around you?

Joy Blue:

Mm

Ella Featherstone:

Or you cannot see the ways in which your actions impact them, the ways in which they want to be seen and heard and understood.

Joy Blue:

Yep.

Ella Featherstone:

And I wish more people would have open and honest conversations about it. And I wish more people would walk into a space and say, Hey, I'm getting some interesting vibes off of you. Are you feeling okay? Is there anything I can do to support you today instead of just ignoring it or writing it off to it being their own problems because, you know, post pandemic, the concept of community has become vastly more important than it has been ever before. And I think community cannot be successful without empathy.

Joy Blue:

Yes to all of the above. I raise my water bottle to making the harder choice to choosing ourselves. I love your empty glass. Thank you for participating.

Ella Featherstone:

But all I have on me.

Joy Blue:

I appreciate it. And here's to making our world a better place, one day at a time.

Ella Featherstone:

Wow. I love that,

Joy Blue:

I love you. Thanks for doing this with me.

Ella Featherstone:

of course.

Joy Blue:

So here we are. Ella is a prime example of how choosing yourself and choosing personal growth can have a lasting and deep impact in shaping who you are in the environments that you foster around you. I absolutely loved this conversation. It went by so fast. And I hope you enjoyed it too. Ella, you're a gem of a human, and I'm really grateful to know you. If you've got a flavor of nerd that you want me to celebrate, I would love to hear all about it. So go ahead and email me at herewearethepodcast@gmail.com and tell me everything. I love taking time to sit and make space for nerd to be celebrated. If you really liked this podcast and want to financially support what I'm doing head on over to Patreon.com search for here we are the podcast and sign up for one of the many beautifully written support tiers that I'm very proud of. So until next time. Don't forget that curiosity wins and the world needs more nerds. Bye